I've been trying to deduce German naming schemes on my own

"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck) 06/14/2015 at 01:23 • Filed to: Mercedes, Bmw, Help

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So I drive over 35k miles a year, and one way I keep myself entertained is just to look at the millions of cars around me on the road. Without just googling everything and removing the sport of solving the puzzle of Mercedes and BMW models, I think I have a poor idea of what’s going on. But I give up and just want answers now.

A 335i is a 3-series with a 3.X inline 6 and a sedan. If you add an x, it has x drive which is just their brand tag for all wheel drive. The i means it’s gas not diesel. Otherwise it would be a 335d. Right?

A 328i is a 3-series 4 cylinder as a “coupe?” My neighbor has a 328ic, I assume at the time the C meant 2-door coupe. I used to think it meant convertible only...

What still throws me off is like a 750iL. It’s a 7-series with a 5.X I assume V8 or larger engine, long wheelbase... but what does the zero mean? Grand tourer? Something pertaining to the type of body style like the others do, I assume.

I saw an old 318i last week. Which was obvious I thought: coupe, smaller 4 cylinder, 3 series.

The X series were supposed to be all wheel drive SUVs... 1 was a wagon, 3 was like a smaller SUV, 5 is the flagship big SUVs, 4 is some... thing. And the 6 is the horrendous Honda Crosstour looking thing.

On to Mercedes. The letters pertains to the body style or platform, whatever it’s called, and the numbers have some vague meaning. I am not much closer on this.

If it had only 2 digits, it’s an AMG. What bothers me is any AMG with the 6.2 biturbo engine is tagged with 63. Why is this? What’s the significance of the three? And then there’s a G65? Is the engine slightly bigger or is it just a fancier G63? Did the ML 43 AMG have a 4.2 liter V8?

An S550 has a smaller engine than the S600 I think.

A C230 is a C class with a 2.3 4 cylinder engine. The C300 has 6 cylinders. (?)

An SLK is a slick (heheh) sporty car that only seats 2. I don’t know what the difference is compared to an SL.... unless K means convertible.

GLA vs GLK... not so sure. I assume the A means smaller crossover thingies.

4Matic means all wheel drive. I guess. BlueTec means... I really don’t know.

Help me. Please help

TheHondaBro > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/14/2015 at 01:27

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Regarding BMW, the two numbers after the series number used to mean engine displacement. A 318i had a 1.8l engine. It doesn’t mean that anymore though.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > TheHondaBro 06/14/2015 at 01:37

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I was going to say that Lexus took the idea of the German scheme and just made it easier: model letters and engine displacement multiplied by 100. Except hybrid engines change the number too now... unless a RX450h has a 4.5L combined displacement, I really don’t get it.

Svart Smart, traded in his Smart > TheHondaBro 06/14/2015 at 01:52

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It used to be similar with Mercedes-Benz, too. A C320, for example, would be a C-Class (sedan) with a 3.2L engine. But things came off the rails somewhere in the 2000s, if not sooner. In North America, for example, the C230 Kompressor coupe quietly lost its 2.3L supercharged inline-four in favor of a more modern 1.8L supercharged four somewhere during its model run... but kept the C230 moniker. The C240 sedan had a 2.6L six. Etc.

The weirdness persists today. Witness the 2015 S550 sedan and its... wait for it... 4.6L turbocharged V8. The model designation suggests a 5.5L engine. Instead, you get an “equivalent” boosted 4.6.

DipodomysDeserti > TheHondaBro 06/14/2015 at 02:16

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They never really stuck to it. I had a 1984 325e and it had a 2.7L engine.

DipodomysDeserti > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/14/2015 at 02:25

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For BMW i = gas and d = diesel. The awd gas would be an xi and the diesel an xd. The first number is the series and the last two just give your a rough estimate of where the power will be compared to other models. A 28i will have more power than a 20i, and a 35i will have more power than a 28i. As of now all the 28i and lower use turbo 4s and the the 35i uses a turbo 6. The 45i and 50i use a V8.

BATC42 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/14/2015 at 02:42

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For BMW it used to be Series-Engine Displacement (x10) Fuel. No the second series of number doesn’t mean displacement anymore. Though it still denotes different power ratings of the engines.

So a 335i used to be a 3 series with a 3.5l engine running on petrol, similarly, a 330d, is a 3-series with a 3.0l diesel engine. When they went to downsize, they kept the classic names but it doesn’t reflect the displacement of the engine. The higher the second number, the higher the power output (a 335 has a bit more than 300hp).
You also got, with the E46 gen, a “Ci” that meant it was a Coupé. You also got the suffix “iS” I believe.
A 750iL, is a 7-series with a 5.0L engine (‘twas a V12 in the E38 and insome of the following gen too) and with a long wheel base.
As for the X, it was first introduced with the X5, which was then followed by the X3 and much later by a smaller SUV (X1). Anyway, I think they name the engine simply like : X5 3.0d for a X5 with a 3.0L diesel engine.

For Mercedes it was the same thing, Model-Engine Displacement-Fuel. If there is nothing after the displacement then it’s petrol, otherwise it’s written CDI and it’s a diesel. That’s the theory. In reality it’s a bit more fuckep up (and for a much longer time than BMW). The number, which was supposed to be the displacement is not only that since the mid 2000’s. For example the last gen C-class you could get it either as a C180 CDI, C200 CDI, C220 CDI or C250 CDI. But they all had the same displacement: 2.2l, just the power output was different (120 for the C180, 204 for the C250). Then it was C320 and C350 CDI which both had a 3.0l diesel, but different power. They were a bit more consistent with the Petrol cars, where the nuber was actually close to the displacement and not something completely different. Also they work with a limited set of numbers (a 3.3l engine had the number 320 on the car) to have a proper hierharchy among the years and generations.
AMG was much more consistent and until recently the number was the actual displacement. Now it’s just range hierarchy (sorry, the A45AMG doesn’t have a 4.5l engine).
And as you might have read they also recently changed the class names for the SUVs to be consistent with the hierarchy of the range. That’s why the ML became the GLE.
Also it I think the K means “Kompakt” or something similar, that’s why you have the SL and the SLK (the SLK being a small SL), and hence why they introduced the GLK after the GL, it’s a small SUV inspired by the GL. But they completely changed everything recenty, that’s why the GLK jsut became the GLC because it’s based on the platform of the C-class. Also the G means “Gelandwagen”, which is German for off-road (or all-road?) vehicle. Thus they’re ditching the K for a better range understanding.
A, B, C, ... or the regular vehicle. Everything with the prefix SL is a roadster followed by the letter of where it is located whithin the regular range, the SLK became the SLC. The SL won’t change name though. Everything with the prefix GL is an SUV followed by the letter of it’s regular stable mate: GLA, GLC, GLE and GLS. The G is a bit of an odd duck and doesn’t change name.
4Matic is 4WD, BlueTECindicates a certain way of treating exhaust gases, BlueEFFICIENCY=a bunch a fuel saving stuff (start-stop,...)

duurtlang > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/14/2015 at 05:52

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BMW is easy. X=crossover (and yes, the X1 is a crossover in its proportions). With the sedans/wagons the first digit refers to the size of the car, the second two digits refer to hierarchical power. 328i is more powerful than a similar generation 320i, and so on. i=gasoline, d=diesel. L=long wheelbase, x=AWD. Not that hard.

With Mercedes engine power is hierarchical as well. A bigger number within the same generation = more powerful engine. Exception are the AMG cars, which have two digits.
The SL vehicles are sporty coupes, with SL meaning S port L eicht. The SLK is the S port L eicht K ompakt. I don’t think I need to translate that.
The G-series vehicles are crossovers, from G eländewagen. The K from GL K comes from K ompakt again. The A in GL A comes from the Mercedes A -class, which the GLA is a bloated version of.
BlueTec is their new name for diesel. Marketing bullshit.

It’s really not that hard at all.

LongbowMkII > BATC42 06/14/2015 at 06:40

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BlueTec is diesel.

BATC42 > duurtlang 06/14/2015 at 07:12

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It’s a bit more than that. They’re marketing the fact that they’re adding AdBlue (like trucks and buses) to treat and reduce NOx emissions. It’s the easiest way to comply to the Euro6 regulations (and PSA chose the same solution).

AM > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/14/2015 at 08:10

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In regard to BMW the names were supposed to reflect series+displacement+fuel type. For example, 335i used to mean it was it was a 3 Series with a 3.5L engine running on petrol. A 330d would be the same thing but with a 3.0L engine running on diesel. In present time, the digits refer to series+performance level. That means a 335i is a 3 Series with a 3.0L turbo engine running on petrol but it’s much more powerful than a 328i. Another thing to help you out is usually any model with the second number under 3 is a 4-cylinder. Anything with the 2nd digit as a 3 is a 6-cylinder. Anything with a 4 or 5 is an 8-cylinder. Anything with a 6 is a 12-cylinder. As for the 1st digit, even numbers are coupes and odd numbers are sedans.

Then you have different variants. Active Tourer is a big hatch (only one model), Gran Coupe is a coupe that’s been given 4 doors (4GC), Gran Turismo or GT means it’s a mix between a car and crossover (5GT), estate is a wagon and Coupe/Sedan/Convertible are the usual.

X is used on crossovers. In Canada, they are usually badged as something like X5 xDrive50i. That means it’s an X5 with AWD but it has a but it only has a 4.4L petrol engine. The even/odd number works here as well. Anything with an even number (i.e. X6) has a “coupe-like” roof and anything with an odd number (i.e. X3) has a regular roof.

Cars with i at the beginning of the name are electric such as the i8. M at the beginning just means performance version as you already know.

Now, in regards to Mercedes, they used to follow the same naming scheme but have seen gave up on it. Cars with 63 are the AMG cars but they also don’t follow the naming scheme anymore. For example, the new C63 would have you believe it’s a 6.3L engine but it actually has a 4.0L engine.

4Matic is just there word used for AWD and comes at the end of each model name (E550 4Matic). BlueTec means the cars a diesel (GL350 BlueTec).

The SUVs are going to be following a new naming scheme. The 3rd letter will now represent a hierarchy like the cars follow. The GL is seen as the flagship SUV so it becomes the GLS making it the equivalent of the flagship S-class sedan. The ML becomes the GLE, an E-class equivalent. The GLK becomes the GLC, a C-class equivalent and the GLA remains the same as an A-class equivalent in terms of the hierarchy.

There will then be a lowercase letter at the end of each name. With this c=compressed natural gas, d=diesel, e=electric and h=hybrid.

Hope that helped you fully understand BMW and Mercedes’ naming scheme.

Hoccy > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/14/2015 at 08:28

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I’ve thought of the Mercedes letters as well.

A = Compact
B = Hatchback
E = Taxi
R = MPV
V = Van

S = Large luxury vehicle
SL = Rather big luxury coupe/convertible
SLK = Compact coupe/convertible
SLS = Sportscar
SLR = Supercar

G = Geländewagen
GL = Huge modern version of Geländewagen
GLK = Compact Geländewagen
GLA = Very compact Geländewagen

Starting to make sense?

C = Typical family car
CL = Big coupe
CLK = Medium size coupe
CLS = Big 4-door “coupe”
CLA = Compact 4-door “coupe”

Which means that A, B, C, E, G and S determines the size/purpose with the car (S luxury, G offroad/SUV and so on). L can be thought of as “large”, because both the GL and the CL is bigger than the G and C. K is “compact”, and A is “small”

But then the ML comes in and ruins everything... The Citan and the Sprinter aren’t helping either.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/14/2015 at 08:32

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Audi is nice and easy. The bigger the number, the larger the car. “A” is the regular car, “S” is the sporty models, and “RS” is the insane versions. Thus, an A6 is bigger than an A4, and an S6 is the fast version of the A6, and nobody knows what an RS6 is like because everyone who’s ever driven one has died in it.

pjhusa > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/14/2015 at 12:53

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There is no ML43 AMG

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/15/2015 at 10:34

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Most everything has been covered already but I will add a few things.

“Displacement replacement” is the main reason model numbers no longer match actual displacement. For example, the 2.0L turbo in the CLA45 theoretically produces as much power as a natural aspirated 4.5L would produce. The other reason is that the average consumer perceives smaller numbers to be lesser models and would therefore consider a V222 “S460” to be a downgrade from a V221 S550 even though the V222 is better in every way, so for marketing they’re still calling the latest model an S550 even though it has a twin turbo 4.6L (which also conveniently works with displacement replacement) both of these come from conversations I’ve had with ze Germans from engineering and marketing departments at Mercedes by the way.

The model numbers do not correspond to cylinder count, for BMW or Mercedes.

No such thing as ML43. There was a C43 with a 4.3L V8 in the late 90’s. The 6.2L AMG’s were rounded up for the sake of marketing and nostalgia from 62XX cc’s, lots of makes do this I don’t understand why AMG gets ago much flak for it. AMG 65’s have twin turbo V12’s, 6.0L. 600’s are non-AMG V12’s, and depending on year could be turbo or naturally aspirated in varying displacements. SLK55 actually still has, like always, a 5.5L naturally aspirated V8.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-…

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 06/15/2015 at 13:51

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Thanks! That was much nicer than, “God, it’s easy to figure out.”

RPM esq. > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/15/2015 at 18:14

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You’re right about most of that BMW stuff. x = xdrive, d = diesel, C = coupe/convertible, L = long wheelbase, etc. The “i” originally was for fuel-injected, I believe, so it just means gas v. diesel now. Really the only thing missing from your analysis is the fact that the third digit is a significant digit for the engine displacement, e.i. 318i = 1.8 liter 3-series, 750 = 5.0-liter (V12, on the older ones) 7-series, etc.

A couple other, somewhat rarer ones: “t” on a wagon, such as a 325it, means “touring”—wagon. On 80s 3- and 5-series, “e,” as in “325e,” is for “efficiency,” referring to lower-revving versions of the engines that are more fuel efficient. L at the beginning—i.e. L6 instead of 633CSi—were shortlived North America-only “luxury” editions—echoing the M motorsports versions of a given chassis, the idea would be that you buy an L6 and get an extra cushy interior with wood and curtains or something, which you then get to advertise that fact. M, of course, is short for “the specific displacement and whatever are a MOTORSPORTS MYSTERY known only to the initiated, you peasant.”

Of course, now BMW blew it all to hell by using the same numbers they used to but on forced-induction engines they refer to, like, what the displacement would have to be to achieve the performance the turbo gets if the engine were naturally aspirated, or some such nonsense, so the engines are actually smaller than the listed displacement. Unless they’re naturally aspirated, then the number is correct, or something? Get it? Yeah, it’s stupid, I know. Should have just gone with “320t” (wait, can’t do that, that’s for wagons) or “320k” for “Kompressor” (wait, that’s Benz) or “320f” for “forced induction”...

RPM esq. > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/15/2015 at 18:28

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For Benz: BlueTEC refers to MB’s “clean diesel” technology—basically a diesel with a really fancy catalytic converter. Like BMW, the numbers used to refer to the engine displacement, 3 digits on normal models and 2 on the AMGs. Also like BMW, these numbers are next to meaningless now due to forced induction (see my comment re BMW). The “K” in CLK, SLK, and GLK means “kurz,” or “short,” or “kompact”—i.e. the smaller/compact version of that chassis/style. Meanwhile, “Kompressor” means “supercharger” in German.

ETA: in Europe, blue is often the color associated with environmental initiatives, much the way green is here. Hence BlueTEC and all the related Bluewhatever components.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/16/2015 at 03:23

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No problem. Honestly, I think it’s very confusing to just try to figure out. But once someone explains it to you it makes a ton of sense.